#1 Why Atheists Kick Out Hitler

I see that Hitler is a real pain to explain for the neo-atheist. They all have such faith in their Atheist Leaders that without question, they must explain Hitler away at all costs. 

After all if they admit that Hitler had even ONE characteristic of an atheist then all atheists or neo-atheists will be brought into disrepute. 


Even though atheism has no standards, no commandments, because there is no leader, no person risen from the dead, no revered example of virtue, no example to emulate, no Mother Theresa, [Madelyn Murray O'hair does not qualify] anyone but a crazy can see that what Hitler did was terribly evil. So yes, as an atheist, he must be explained away.

"Ignore the Stalins, Mao Tse Tungs, the Pol Pots, the Idi-Amins, the other atheistic mass murderers, we cannot defend against them. Just please explain away Hitler. Well let us see. Wow! I have it! He went to church at one time. In fact he may even have wanted to be a priest! That's it! We will use that and doubletalk our way around the facts. No one will know. We will confuse them by his early history." - Neo the Atheist

Trying to say Hitler was a Christian may have been possibly right at one time. At one time he went to church.

Therefore since you, Brian at one time went to church, then YOU TOO are a Christian, because you have the same characteristic that you use to rationalize that Hitler was. 

There is no logic in having one standard for Hitler and one for you. Apples need to be compared to apples, not oranges! Except of course, they are both fruits. 

A similar comparison cannot be made for Brian and Hitler except Hitler was an atheist and Brian claims to be an atheist.

I cannot think of any other shred of evidence that Hitler could be considered a Christian. Don't bother using his early life and thoughts, because that is NOT when he decided to eliminate the Jews from the Earth [reminds me of groups like Hamas. Are they Christians too? (:-)]

You cannot say that he talked about God and what God wanted him to do because any insane asylum will have some of those people. None of them convinced millions of otherwise sane people to commit mass murder. Hitler did.

In this area especially any knowledge of scientific method or logical reasoning is cast aside and instead you rely on faith. Faith in what other atheists write about Hitler. Never mind if he was a genocidal murderer. "That is obviously a characteristic of Jesus Christ or Yeshua. Yes." - Neo-Atheist

Can you quote me a verse, even out of context as is normal for neo-atheists, where Yeshua recommends to his disciples that they are to go out and slaughter any racial group they believe is inferior, or unjust, or radical, or just because he didn't like them?

And yet with blind faith in your chosen supreme beings, you believe them, even if it is illogical, ridiculous, and with no sense.

The more I see neo-atheists, the more I see the hypocrisy they accuse others of. They accuse others of having no evidence and following by blind faith. However they fail to see that they follow the "teachings" of others with glee, especially if it mocks Christians and other believers.

And yes, and if you give good answers to ignorant articles on Dawkins.net then you too can get kicked off. 

After all they believe in "freethinking" if it agrees with their "freethinking, and they believe in FREE speech as long as you are one of them. Others be stifled.  Or simply be cast into atheistic hell.

HITLER'S ANTI-RELIGIOUS OPINIONS

In the book HITLER'S TABLE TALK, a book of Hitler's opinions collected by a close aide during the war years we see exactly what Hitler thought of Christianity. Some of the opinions are listed below.

• He called Christianity one of the great "scourges" of history and said to the Germans "Let us be the only people who are immunized against this disease." [Editor: Sounds rather like some atheists does it not?]
• He said that "through the peasantry we will be able to destroy Christianity."
• He blamed the Jews for inventing Christianity
• He condemned Christianity for opposing evolution [Hmmm. Ever heard that before?]
• He identified the Christian values of compassion and equality as being weakness
• Hitler's leading advisors, Goebbels, Himmler, Heydrich and Bormann were atheists who hated religion and sought to eradicate its influence in Germany
• Historian Richard Evans writes that "the Nazis regarded the churches as the strongest and toughest reservoirs of ideological opposition to the principles they believed in"
• After 1937, the policies of Hitler's government became increasingly anti-religious
• The Nazis stopped celebrating Christmas and the Hitler Youth recited a prayer thanking the Fuhrer rather than God for their blessings
• Clergy were regarded as troublemakers, ordered not to preach, and hundreds of them were imprisoned
• Many were simply murdered
• Churches were under constant Gestapo surveillance
• The Nazis closed religious schools, forced Christian organizations to disband, dismissed civil servants who were practising Christians, confiscated church property, and censored religious newspapers.

"If Nazism represented the culmination of anything, it was that of the nineteenth-century and early twentieth-century ideology of social Darwinism.

 As historian Richard Wikart documents, both Hitler and Himmler were admirers of Darwin and often spoke of their role as enacting a "law of nature" that guaranteed the "elimination of the unfit".

Hitler "drew upon social Darwinist thought to construct his own racist philosophy". Although this by itself does not explain all of his Nazi actions, it is a necessary one to explain Naziism. Without Darwin there may have been no Naziism.

The Nazis also drew upon the thought of philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, adapting his atheist philosophy to their crude purposes. Nietzsche's "will to power" almost became a Nazi recruitment slogan.

No one is suggesting that Darwin would have approved of Hitler's ideas. But Hitler's henchmen did approve of Darwin and Nietzsche's ideas.

Now if after reading this, you still believe that Hitler was a Christian, there is no hope for you. If you reject what Hitler did as proof, his actions against religion, his negative comments against Christianity, what historians have said of him, then you have rejected evidence in favor of dogmatism and indoctrination.


-Charles Pedley, 2011

Re: Call To Action

Charles:

You are obviously an intelligent individual, Brian. However intelligence is not perfect and is not supreme. There are intelligent people on both sides of every issue. 


That is why belittling [which you are NOT doing right now] is absolutely wrong. It does nothing to uncover the real truth just to put the other person on the defensive so they will forget to keep discussing the issues.

Let's take your final statement below as an example.

Most atheists believe absolutely there is no God. They also usually believe absolutely in no absolutes. Somewhat of a conundrum. However there is usually MORE than one way to see things. 

The 6 Blind Men of Hindustan comes to mind. I am quoting this because you are giving absolutely one answer below instead of the alternatives. And your ONE answer is always slanted in your bias against Christians beliefs. Do you even know you are biased or do you have the attitude of most atheists that you have a superior reasoning power and anyone who is Christian believes in leprechauns and fairies? 

There were six men of Hindustan,

to learning much inclined, 

Who went to see an elephant,

though all of them were blind,

That each by observation
might satisfy his mind.

The first approached the elephant,
and happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
at once began to bawl,
"This mystery of an elephant
is very like a wall."

The second, feeling of the tusk,
cried, "Ho, what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an elephant
is very like a spear."

The third approached the elephant,
and happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
thus boldly up and spake,
"I see," quoth he,
"the elephant is very like a snake."

The fourth reached out an eager hand,
and felt above the knee,
"What this most wondrous beast
is like is very plain" said he,
"'Tis clear enough the elephant
is very like a tree."

The fifth who chanced to touch the ear
said, "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
deny the fact who can;
This marvel of an elephant
is very like a fan."

The sixth no sooner had begun
about the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail
that fell within his scope;
"I see," said he, "the elephant
is very like a rope."

So six blind men of Hindustan
disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
exceeding stiff and strong;
Though each was partly in the right,
they all were in the wrong!

I will take your statement first. Time is limited but here ....

  

"If you believe in Jesus you may come to the conclusion that those that killed him are hated in the sight of God and need to be killed. This seems to be the conclusion of Martin Luther according to his writings and also of Adolph Hitler according to his.

If you are an Atheist and don't believe in God or Jesus Christ why would you hate Jews and call them the murderers of Christ. There would be no action to take."

Martin Luther like you and I and all humanity is flawed. We are far from perfect, we make mistakes. Some of those mistakes are just mistakes or misunderstandings. Others are called by the Bible "sin" because society will break down if they become the accepted practice as you have seen it doing since the 60's. Divorces, runaways, broken families, drugs and much more are all commonplace now.

Was Martin Luther perfect? Not on your life! I totally know that his anti-semitic attitude was wrong. Does that mean we write off everything he did? You have the choice to write off people and ideas if you wish, but I cannot. 

I don't write you off because you are an agnostic disguised as an atheist. There is still hope for you.

Luther's contribution was to break the corruption in the then Roman Catholic church and declare that "faith" not all the rituals were the answer to belief in God. That was his contribution. Was he right? Sure. Were all his followers right? Not on your life. 

Let's take your statement one part at a time to uncover the truth.

"If you believe in Jesus you may come to the conclusion that those that killed him are hated in the sight of God and need to be killed."

OR you may NOT come to that conclusion at all. 

But if you do, how can you then believe in the 10 Commandments one of which says to not commit murder and how can you believe Jesus who said, that those that live by the sword will die by the sword. How could a Christian believe Jesus and commit murder when they have the example of Jesus stopping Peter after he cut off a Roman ear?

When you fragment the truth, instead of looking at the whole teachings of Yeshua, you get a lie just as when you separate the hydrogen from the water, you do not have water any more.

Second Part:

If you are an Atheist and don't believe in God or Jesus Christ why would you hate Jews and call them the murderers of Christ. There would be no action to take."

My comment: What if you are a Christian and believe there is NO action to take?


That is me and many others. In fact many Jews in and out of Israel realize that evangelical Christians are their best friends. I belong to an organization called IPW [Israel Prayer Watch]. We meet monthly and pray for over 70 Christian ministries in Israel who are there to help the downtrodden and the have-nots. That comes from what Jesus said when he was in the synagogue very early in his ministry and this happened.

Luke 4:14-21

14  Then Jesus, filled with the power of the Spirit, returned to Galilee, and a report about him spread through all the surrounding country. ¹⁵He began to teach in their synagogues and was praised by everyone.

16  When he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, he went to the synagogue on the sabbath day, as was his custom. He stood up to read, ¹⁷and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written: 

¹⁸  'The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,

   because he has anointed me

     to bring good news to the poor.

He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind,

     to let the oppressed go free, 

¹⁹  to proclaim the year of the Lord's favour.' 

²⁰ And he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. ²¹Then he began to say to them, 'Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.'

Most Christians [or the PREPONDERANCE of Christians (:-)] would tell you THAT is what Christianity is mainly about. That is why there are so many Christian organizations and/or churches doing exactly that.

So what action do you take to benefit the world Brian, as an agnostic-atheist? Just asking.

The above scripture explains Albert Schweitzer, Mother Theresa, Mark and Hilda Buntain and countless more. Those are just ones that stand out in my mind right now.

If you read more about Hitler on the wiki or elsewhere you will see that he left the teachings of Christianity and formed his own set of beliefs like atheists do, which feels right according to their intelligence" and therefore became an "A-theist" = without God. Not blaming all atheists for Hitler but he was one as he created his own "religion" or set of beliefs.

There is certainly no need to cover the other famous atheists who destroyed great masses of people in USSR, Africa and East Asia.

-Charles

Brian's Comments:
[My comments are in BOLD after Brian's point]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:25 AM, BC wrote:

When you believe something strongly it can be a call to action. OR NOT

If you believe in ghosts it may drive you to run from the spooky house when you hear a noise.

You may hold a seance to contact a dear departed. OR NOT

If you don't believe in ghosts there is no action to take.

If you believe in communism you may fight and kill to force those who don't to accept your belief or die for the common good of all. 

If you don't believe in communism and no one is forcing you to then there is no action to take.

If you believe in Jesus you may come to the conclusion that those that killed him are hated in the sight of God and need to be killed. This seems to be the conclusion of Martin Luther according to his writings and also of Adolph Hitler according to his.

If you are an Atheist and don't believe in God or Jesus Christ why would you hate Jews and call them the murderers of Christ. There would be no action to take. OR NOT

[So Brian are you saying that ALL atheists are NOT ANTI-JEWISH? Be ABSOLUTELY SURE before you answer even if you believe in NO ABSOLUTES. Time to 'man up' and realize that EVERYBODY BELIEVES IN SOME ABSOLUTES, ABSOLUTELY!]

It is hard to create an action from a disbelief. INCLUDING GOOD ACTIONS! 

That's why I doubt Hitler was an atheist or that Stalin and the rest did the evil that they did in the name of disbelief. It's nonsensical. If you substitute communism for religion and promote it like a religion and make your leaders into the divine like in North Korea.  Then you've just created the religion of communism which can be used to drive action. Atheism by itself does not and can not lead one to major action like war and genocide. 

Brian you can doubt anything you want but THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOUR DOUBT TRUTH.

Brian you are living in a Bubble of self-imposed indoctrination if you believe that !


It is obvious Hitler was an atheist. He made up his own religion just like atheists. How much more evidence do you need than this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_views

You won't find this idea in Christianity [comes from Wiki above]

"To the extent he believed in a divinity, Hitler did not believe in a "remote, rationalist divinity" but in an "active deity,"^[72] which he frequently referred to as "Creator" or "Providence". In Hitler's belief God created a world in which different races fought each other for survival as depicted by Arthur de Gobineau. The "Aryan race," supposedly the bearer of civilization, is allocated a special place:

What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race ... so that our people may mature for the fulfilment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. ... Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence.^[72]

OR Hitler's contact to Lanz von Liebenfels makes it necessary to examine how far his religious views were influenced by Ariosophy, an esoteric movement in Germany and Austria that flourished from the 1890s to the 1920s. (Whether Ariosophy is to be classified as Germanic paganism or Occultismis a different question.) The seminal work on Ariosophy, The Occult Roots of Nazism by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, devotes its last chapter the topic of Ariosophy and Adolf Hitler. Not at least due to the difficulty of sources, historians disagree about the importance of Ariosophy for Hitler's religious views. As noted in the foreword of The Occult Roots of Nazism by Rohan Butler, Goodrick-Clarke is more cautious in assessing the influence of Lanz von Liebenfels on Hitler than Joachim Fest in his biography of Hitler.^[78] A Hitler biography by John Toland that appeared in 1992 reprints a poem that Hitler allegedly wrote while serving in the German Army on the Western Front in 1915.^[79] This poem includes references to magical runes and the pre-Christian Germanic deity Woden, but it is mentioned neither by Goodrick-Clarke nor by Fest.

While he was in power, Hitler was definitely less interested in the occult or the esoteric than other Nazi leaders. Unlike Heinrich Himmler and Rudolf Hess, for example, Hitler had no interest in astrology. Nevertheless, Hitler is the most important figure in the Modern Mythology of Nazi occultism. There are teledocumentaries about this topic, with the titles Hitler and the Occult and Hitler's Search for the Holy Grail.^[80]

OR

^ "Closely related to his support of education was his tolerant skepticism concerning religion. He looked upon religion as a series of conventions and as a crutch for human weakness [rather like atheistic beliefs] , but, like most of his neighbors, he insisted that the women of his household fulfill all religious obligations. He restricted his own participation to donning his uniform to take his proper place in festivals and processions. As he grew older Alois shifted from relative passivity in his attitude toward the power and influence of the institutional Church to a firm opposition to "clericalism," especially when the position of the Church came into conflict with his views on education." - Bradley F. Smith: Adolf Hitler: His Family, Childhood and YouthStanford/California, 1967 p. 27

Brian. Only someone looking to blindly blame Hitler on religion would come up with such an idea that he was NOT ATHEISTIC. Again .... Hitler made up his OWN SET OF BELIEFS. So do atheists. Do you see a connection?

The atheistic "religion" has formed its own beliefs mainly concerning the non-existence of God. Hitler made up his own religion relating to superior races [sounds a bit like Dawkins and C. Hitchens], and inferior beings [those that disagree with you or don't understand your beliefs]. 

That is why undoubtedly he was atheistic .... he made up his own religion.

Christianity on the other hand got theirs from the son of God, Yeshua.

Stalin and communism were and are the largest atheistic-state-believing nations of all time!

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