That is why belittling [which you are NOT doing right now] is absolutely wrong. It does nothing to uncover the real truth just to put the other person on the defensive so they will forget to keep discussing the issues.
Most atheists believe absolutely there is no God. They also usually believe absolutely in no absolutes. Somewhat of a conundrum. However there is usually MORE than one way to see things.
might satisfy his mind.
and happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
at once began to bawl,
"This mystery of an elephant
is very like a wall."
cried, "Ho, what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an elephant
is very like a spear."
and happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
thus boldly up and spake,
"I see," quoth he,
"the elephant is very like a snake."
and felt above the knee,
"What this most wondrous beast
is like is very plain" said he,
"'Tis clear enough the elephant
is very like a tree."
said, "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
deny the fact who can;
This marvel of an elephant
is very like a fan."
about the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail
that fell within his scope;
"I see," said he, "the elephant
is very like a rope."
disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
exceeding stiff and strong;
Though each was partly in the right,
they all were in the wrong!
I don't write you off because you are an agnostic disguised as an atheist. There is still hope for you.
Most Christians [or the PREPONDERANCE of Christians (:-)] would tell you THAT is what Christianity is mainly about. That is why there are so many Christian organizations and/or churches doing exactly that.
[My comments are in BOLD after Brian's point]
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:25 AM, BC wrote:
When you believe something strongly it can be a call to action. OR NOT
If you believe in ghosts it may drive you to run from the spooky house when you hear a noise.You may hold a seance to contact a dear departed. OR NOT
If you don't believe in ghosts there is no action to take.
If you believe in communism you may fight and kill to force those who don't to accept your belief or die for the common good of all.
If you don't believe in communism and no one is forcing you to then there is no action to take.
If you believe in Jesus you may come to the conclusion that those that killed him are hated in the sight of God and need to be killed. This seems to be the conclusion of Martin Luther according to his writings and also of Adolph Hitler according to his.
[So Brian are you saying that ALL atheists are NOT ANTI-JEWISH? Be ABSOLUTELY SURE before you answer even if you believe in NO ABSOLUTES. Time to 'man up' and realize that EVERYBODY BELIEVES IN SOME ABSOLUTES, ABSOLUTELY!]If you are an Atheist and don't believe in God or Jesus Christ why would you hate Jews and call them the murderers of Christ. There would be no action to take. OR NOT
It is hard to create an action from a disbelief. INCLUDING GOOD ACTIONS!
That's why I doubt Hitler was an atheist or that Stalin and the rest did the evil that they did in the name of disbelief. It's nonsensical. If you substitute communism for religion and promote it like a religion and make your leaders into the divine like in North Korea. Then you've just created the religion of communism which can be used to drive action. Atheism by itself does not and can not lead one to major action like war and genocide.
It is obvious Hitler was an atheist. He made up his own religion just like atheists. How much more evidence do you need than this:
"To the extent he believed in a divinity, Hitler did not believe in a "remote, rationalist divinity" but in an "active deity," which he frequently referred to as "Creator" or "Providence". In Hitler's belief God created a world in which different races fought each other for survival as depicted by Arthur de Gobineau. The "Aryan race," supposedly the bearer of civilization, is allocated a special place:
What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race ... so that our people may mature for the fulfilment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. ... Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence.
^ "Closely related to his support of education was his tolerant skepticism concerning religion. He looked upon religion as a series of conventions and as a crutch for human weakness [rather like atheistic beliefs] , but, like most of his neighbors, he insisted that the women of his household fulfill all religious obligations. He restricted his own participation to donning his uniform to take his proper place in festivals and processions. As he grew older Alois shifted from relative passivity in his attitude toward the power and influence of the institutional Church to a firm opposition to "clericalism," especially when the position of the Church came into conflict with his views on education." - Bradley F. Smith: Adolf Hitler: His Family, Childhood and YouthStanford/California, 1967 p. 27OR Hitler's contact to Lanz von Liebenfels makes it necessary to examine how far his religious views were influenced by Ariosophy, an esoteric movement in Germany and Austria that flourished from the 1890s to the 1920s. (Whether Ariosophy is to be classified as Germanic paganism or Occultismis a different question.) The seminal work on Ariosophy, The Occult Roots of Nazism by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, devotes its last chapter the topic of Ariosophy and Adolf Hitler. Not at least due to the difficulty of sources, historians disagree about the importance of Ariosophy for Hitler's religious views. As noted in the foreword of The Occult Roots of Nazism by Rohan Butler, Goodrick-Clarke is more cautious in assessing the influence of Lanz von Liebenfels on Hitler than Joachim Fest in his biography of Hitler. A Hitler biography by John Toland that appeared in 1992 reprints a poem that Hitler allegedly wrote while serving in the German Army on the Western Front in 1915. This poem includes references to magical runes and the pre-Christian Germanic deity Woden, but it is mentioned neither by Goodrick-Clarke nor by Fest.
While he was in power, Hitler was definitely less interested in the occult or the esoteric than other Nazi leaders. Unlike Heinrich Himmler and Rudolf Hess, for example, Hitler had no interest in astrology. Nevertheless, Hitler is the most important figure in the Modern Mythology of Nazi occultism. There are teledocumentaries about this topic, with the titles Hitler and the Occult and Hitler's Search for the Holy Grail.